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Nitex

[Preview] Dark Wide Rework

17 posts in this topic

Hi guys,

 

I just wanted to show you guys a cool rework we've done for the upcoming comprehensive balancing update. This isn't something confirmed 100% yet, but it is a rework that we are testing along with the several other changes we've made. Just showing you guys this one because I think it's a pretty cool re-work.

Dark Wide: While this is an awesome skill, it has a few problems. Since it isn't dodgeable, it makes playing against a DW really frustrating because they have this really powerful skill that you could do nothing against. Dekaron is a "skill" based game, and while we like this skill, we don't really feel like there should be a skill that does this amount of damage without dodge opportunity. It's a repeat of the Dark Avatar situation, which was changed to be dodgeable in its own official rework.

Since this is a really powerful Wizard skill though, we can't just make the whole thing dodgeable as that would be too big of a nerf.

We're testing a rework that has changed it so that 1) AOE size is larger on all hits (not progressively getting larger anymore) and 2) it is dodgeable now. 3) The delay between hits is slightly faster to make up for the fact that it's dodgeable

The goal was to make the skill into one that is powerful but also takes technique and strategy to properly execute, and we think we've achieved that goal.

Below you'll see a video of how it works now. Keep in mind though, we're testing this re work, meaning it may be different when the comprehensive balancing update is done.

 

 

Hydden, akxfolife, Adori and 2 others like this

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So glad I quit this soon to be dead class ! Will defiantly help other classes fight them, but ultimately make that skill useless. Trust me the way it seems from that video, it is like how bio is used, except you have to a mode a area to use it. If you do not lag this skill will be awesome, but anyone who lags might want to quit.Most dw slows suck already, and relied on placing skills like bio in a good timed spot for max damage.

 

I could be wrong, but I doubt it, and time will tell if dw dies out after this. Already nerfed 10% of there damage (d-shop buff), and now your changing there BEST skill.

{VIP}PerryEllis and Sheikh like this

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1 hour ago, MasterD said:

So glad I quit this soon to be dead class ! Will defiantly help other classes fight them, but ultimately make that skill useless. Trust me the way it seems from that video, it is like how bio is used, except you have to a mode a area to use it. If you do not lag this skill will be awesome, but anyone who lags might want to quit.Most dw slows suck already, and relied on placing skills like bio in a good timed spot for max damage.

 

I could be wrong, but I doubt it, and time will tell if dw dies out after this. Already nerfed 10% of there damage (d-shop buff), and now your changing there BEST skill.

Thank you for your feedback, please keep in mind that this is just something we are testing on the balance channel and isn't guaranteed to be implemented.

There are a few points I would like to address:

1. DW has a 10% damage nerf, this was done because DW had a very unfair dshop advantage. (They could become very resistant to melee/physical damage and boost their damage up to 25% whereas their melee opponents could only boost their attack but no defense against magic at all.) This caused BW, Mage, and Segnale to benefit more from dshop buffs than any other class.

2. Testing with DW there are some combos I discovered that can root their opponent for several seconds causing them to be unable to move. (Both movement speed debuffs cast very quickly and can stack with either other)

OFllfOU.jpg

Even if Hammered used full Dshop buffs, I would still hit 10~12k whites and 25~27k crits because none of the old dshop buffs gave any elemental resistance

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3 hours ago, MasterD said:

So glad I quit this soon to be dead class ! Will defiantly help other classes fight them, but ultimately make that skill useless. Trust me the way it seems from that video, it is like how bio is used, except you have to a mode a area to use it. If you do not lag this skill will be awesome, but anyone who lags might want to quit.Most dw slows suck already, and relied on placing skills like bio in a good timed spot for max damage.

 

I could be wrong, but I doubt it, and time will tell if dw dies out after this. Already nerfed 10% of there damage (d-shop buff), and now your changing there BEST skill.

Like Fayth said this is just testing and isn't 100% sure it will make it happen.

I doubt wizard will die since we'll make sure it's still balanced. But a skill that hits 14 times shouldn't be undodgeable so maybe we will increase the damage of some of the slower skills so that wizard isn't just a class where you press Dark Wide to win, but a class where you actually have to think to win.

Ya'll must admit tho. This new effect looks AWESOME

[GM]Fayth 신앙 and MasterD like this

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2 hours ago, [GM]Fayth 신앙 said:

Thank you for your feedback, please keep in mind that this is just something we are testing on the balance channel and isn't guaranteed to be implemented.

There are a few points I would like to address:

1. DW has a 10% damage nerf, this was done because DW had a very unfair dshop advantage. (They could become very resistant to melee/physical damage and boost their damage up to 25% whereas their melee opponents could only boost their attack but no defense against magic at all.) This caused BW, Mage, and Segnale to benefit more from dshop buffs than any other class.

2. Testing with DW there are some combos I discovered that can root their opponent for several seconds causing them to be unable to move. (Both movement speed debuffs cast very quickly and can stack with either other)

OFllfOU.jpg

Even if Hammered used full Dshop buffs, I would still hit 10~12k whites and 25~27k crits because none of the old dshop buffs gave any elemental resistance

Your basing damage from a mele/magic class to a mage or dw who are ONLY magic ? Also basing your damage from a class that has a 100% chance of landing a full on debuffed combo on someone with her sleep vs a mage or dw who can not get a full debuff/damage combo on a skilled player ? So since I get 25ked by a MEGA tank (summy) class we need more defence right ?

Oh and movement speed debuff can be avoided with the dashes/a-mode some of your pushback skills..

From what I seen darkwide is not the main thing a dw uses. If you fight a good dw you will notice you have no mana most of the fight and that you take damage from your own hits from his reflect.

Yes, it actually does looks awesome though !:D

{VIP}PerryEllis and Sheikh like this

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The main problem here would be that since Black Wizard has low movement speed when not having the Dark Soul buff on so imagine you are a Black Wizard and you are up against a Half Bagi, Bagi Warrior, Segita, Aloken, Azure Knight, Dragon Knight and you are almost close to finishing them off in the case of Bagi, Half Bagi and Aloken who have Abnormal Ressistance buffs you cant use any slow skill to slow them down since they have movement speed buff and ABN Resi so you cast dark wide to finish them off any other skill is pretty much useless, from my experience dark wide is the most important skill that needs to track dark dragons cant if they are far away and slow skills as I said become useless the only real good nerf would be the Dark Crystal since if you think a bit about it gives a really unfair advantage against summoners for example I always found my self in a bad position where I could eat an entire Dark Avatar but with Dark Crystal not only that you dodge to the right but also creat a huge distance gap between you an the treath cause if dark crystal would not create distance between you and the summoner he could follow up with different skills to deal damage to you, the same thing applies to Bagi Warrior's EarthQuake check the example in this video that I made that has a great example 

at 00:42 he comes and misses his first stun and since Dark Crystal is a really quick cast skill I was able to dodge the stun entirely without any problem and be able to cast a different skill to deal damage while his animation still wasn't finished, Back Step's animation is alot slower so that would've give him the perfect opportunity to stun me also if dark crystal was working and lets say his stun still would've missed I would've still be in his reach for him to cast different skills on me to try and finish me off.
In my opinion Dark Wide is in a perfect place right now the only thing Black Wizard needs to get changed is the Dark Crystal so it reduces alot of his mobility I ask the Balance team to just check all the skills that Dark Crystall can avoid and stop making huge and drastic changes to one class making it useless and unenjoyable for the person who actually enjoys this class the most, take it with baby steps not every nerf/buff needs to be perfect from the start, small changes here and there + feedback from the comunity is what is going to get the classes to a somewhat balanced duel system cause there will always be classes that have the advantage over another class Example : Black Wizzard vs Vicious Summoner

MasterD and Delac / Roasteed like this

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12 minutes ago, Maestru said:

The main problem here would be that since Black Wizard has low movement speed when not having the Dark Soul buff on so imagine you are a Black Wizard and you are up against a Half Bagi, Bagi Warrior, Segita, Aloken, Azure Knight, Dragon Knight and you are almost close to finishing them off in the case of Bagi, Half Bagi and Aloken who have Abnormal Ressistance buffs you cant use any slow skill to slow them down since they have movement speed buff and ABN Resi so you cast dark wide to finish them off any other skill is pretty much useless, from my experience dark wide is the most important skill that needs to track dark dragons cant if they are far away and slow skills as I said become useless the only real good nerf would be the Dark Crystal since if you think a bit about it gives a really unfair advantage against summoners for example I always found my self in a bad position where I could eat an entire Dark Avatar but with Dark Crystal not only that you dodge to the right but also creat a huge distance gap between you an the treath cause if dark crystal would not create distance between you and the summoner he could follow up with different skills to deal damage to you, the same thing applies to Bagi Warrior's EarthQuake check the example in this video that I made that has a great example 

at 00:42 he comes and misses his first stun and since Dark Crystal is a really quick cast skill I was able to dodge the stun entirely without any problem and be able to cast a different skill to deal damage while his animation still wasn't finished, Back Step's animation is alot slower so that would've give him the perfect opportunity to stun me also if dark crystal was working and lets say his stun still would've missed I would've still be in his reach for him to cast different skills on me to try and finish me off.
In my opinion Dark Wide is in a perfect place right now the only thing Black Wizard needs to get changed is the Dark Crystal so it reduces alot of his mobility I ask the Balance team to just check all the skills that Dark Crystall can avoid and stop making huge and drastic changes to one class making it useless and unenjoyable for the person who actually enjoys this class the most, take it with baby steps not every nerf/buff needs to be perfect from the start, small changes here and there + feedback from the comunity is what is going to get the classes to a somewhat balanced duel system cause there will always be classes that have the advantage over another class Example : Black Wizzard vs Vicious Summoner

So you'd rather us keep Dark Wide the same and remove the mobility from Dark Crystal? I added the mobility on that skill because Wizard lacked mobility. But yes, it makes Wizard pretty powerful, but only when played with a high skill level. The way Dark Wide doesn't support strategy, it's deals 12 hits of damage no matter what and is used whenever off cooldown -- that's not strategy.

I appreciate you voicing your opinion.

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2 hours ago, Dannyboi said:

Like Fayth said this is just testing and isn't 100% sure it will make it happen.

I doubt wizard will die since we'll make sure it's still balanced. But a skill that hits 14 times shouldn't be undodgeable so maybe we will increase the damage of some of the slower skills so that wizard isn't just a class where you press Dark Wide to win, but a class where you actually have to think to win.

Ya'll must admit tho. This new effect looks AWESOME

The skills looks bad, adding more damage could make sense but take in consideration that it is the only skill that Dark Wizards have to finish off their opponent Back Step can't finish off an opponent that runs away Dark Crystall cant Fatal Smile cant Dark Dragons could do the job but only if Abnormal Resistance is down for classes that have Abnormal Resistance, Disblock is easy to dodge so please tell me how could a Black Wizard finish a match without any skill that can track, in my opinion the class will be useless af when that nerf will be applied.

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10 minutes ago, Nitex said:

So you'd rather us keep Dark Wide the same and remove the mobility from Dark Crystal? I added the mobility on that skill because Wizard lacked mobility. But yes, it makes Wizard pretty powerful, but only when played with a high skill level. The way Dark Wide doesn't support strategy, it's deals 12 hits of damage no matter what and is used whenever off cooldown -- that's not strategy.

I appreciate you voicing your opinion.

Yes Dark Crystal is the skill that gives most of the trouble for melee classes it creates such a huge gap between you and the opponent in a way that he can't possibly reach you cause you also have Back Step to create an even bigger gap and Fatal Smile which also slows down the enemy in case Abnormal Resistance is down or he isnt quick enough to use the dash to completly dodge it + having Limit Rush which in case the opponent comes close you just use it and after a few seconds you have Dark Crystal back again. The problem that most Black Wizards have now is that finishing an opponent that has HP recovering skill its close to impossible to finish off ex: AK, Segu, Segnale, Aloken even with the so called OP Dark Wide I found myself beaten by segu's that have far worse items than me and I am fully perfect with MC2 Helm and SpeedBoots V3 while they are using 195 weapons, also it's pretty tilting to deal only 800 DMG to an AK even if you hit 12 hits or 14 on an AK if you deal only 800 dmg it becomes useless.

While I can see the PROS and CONS of reworking Dark Wide for me the CONS that I get with that rework far outweight the PROS of having an more powerfull skill that can be simply avoided by running or dodging.

Riku and MasterD like this

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